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14 <H1>[IRCServices] I: service for ircu
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17 TITLE=
"[IRCServices] I: service for ircu">anarki at flamebait.org
19 <I>Wed Jun
28 22:
44:
01 PDT
2000</I>
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34 <PRE>on
6/
28/
00 8:
02 PM, Kelmar K. Firesun at
<A HREF=
"http://www.ircservices.za.net/mailman/listinfo/ircservices">kfiresun at ix.netcom.com
</A> wrote:
37 </I>><i> ----- Original Message -----
38 </I>><i> From:
"Andrew Kempe
" <<A HREF=
"http://www.ircservices.za.net/mailman/listinfo/ircservices">andrewk at icon.co.za
</A>>
39 </I>><i> To:
<<A HREF=
"http://www.ircservices.za.net/mailman/listinfo/ircservices">ircservices at delirious.shadowfire.org
</A>>
40 </I>><i> Sent: Wednesday, June
28,
2000 12:
49 AM
41 </I>><i> Subject: Re: [IRCServices] I: service for ircu
44 </I>>><i> All future development will be for DALnet's Bahamut ircd. This ircd
46 </I>>><i> the benefits of Hybrid (speed and TS3) and Dreamforge (Services support -
47 </I>>><i> among other things).
50 </I>><i> ] ... SNIP ... [
52 </I>><i> Are you completely dropping support for all other IRCD's!?
54 </I>><i> If so, this sounds rather presumptuous. Several people still use the older
55 </I>><i> daemons for many reasons, not to say the least are for efficiency and
56 </I>><i> "ethic
"
57 </I>><i> reasons. (Some people view forcively changing a user's mode and/or nick to
60 </I>><i> For my own reasons, this is going to make things harder on my part with the
61 </I>><i> designs of the IRCD that I've been working on for sometime. I'll not have
62 </I>><i> a familiar starting ground on which to make my daemon compatible with
64 </I>><i> That being the original server to server negotiations as outlined in RFC
66 </I>><i> Bahamut and DreamForge use a modified version there of.
68 </I>><i> Further more, you'll be shutting everyone out, not everyone is going to want
70 </I>><i> change their server (let alone their whole network) over to Bahamut. Last I
72 </I>><i> a Bahamut/DF mix on my network it caused some major stability problems.
74 </I>><i> I urge you to please reconsider your decision in this matter.
76 </I>><i> Thank you,
77 </I>><i> Bryce Simonds
78 </I>><i> Kelmar K. Firesun
82 I'm FAR from the decision maker as to what ircservices is and isn't
83 capatible with. but I'd like to share a few pennies with you.
85 First, is that ircservices are free of charge, meaning the coder(s) isn't
86 getting paid a dime to code, and such code comes from kindness of heart, not
87 from requests from end users. Please don't confuse my last sentence to mean
88 that coders don't value end user input, they do, that's where alot of ideas
89 and bug fixes are spawned.
91 It's MY opinion that the coder(s) should be allowed to go any direction they
92 wish and the end user should expect at least what the pay for.
94 I am friends with several coders of services. Opus for OtherNet Services,
95 Andrew Kempe, current maintainer of ircservices and I would like to count
96 Andy Church in that group if I only got to know him more, seems that I don't
97 see him interact publicly as often. It seems that the majority opinion from
98 GPL coders in general is that their number one issue is that the end user
99 isn't satisfied with what is given to them for free, they always want more
100 and sometimes go as far as demanding more. I'm not saying nor implying that
101 you or anyone associated with yourself or your network is doing such, I'm
102 saying basiclly you can't please everyone. CServe for OtherNet was pulled
103 off of the GPL license with the release of CS6/UW9, Opus tried to sell the
104 code he worked very hard on and nearly
"gave
" the project away, just to rid
105 of it. CServe/UWorld is unfortunately no longer available to the public. GPL
106 or for sale. Opus was pounded because the code wasn't public, so he made it
107 public with the GPL license, then he was pounded because it didn't meet end
108 users demands, so he tried to sell it, and was pounded
10 fold for trying to
111 I can't do anything shy of admire those that write/maintain GPL Services.
112 They give and give without asking anything in return other than obey the
113 license and to RTFM before asking for support, so why not let them deside
114 what is supported and what isn't? So what if it's harder on a few end users.
115 To be blunt, most end users would be without services all together if it
116 wasn't for the efforts of these coders. So lets concider how hard it is on
117 the coders to do multidaemon support.
119 You also have the option to continue a mutliple ircd services yourself or
120 work closely with someone that maybe interested/knowledgable in
121 coding,ircservices is still GPL. So as long as GPL licensing is followed you
122 may spawn your own services off and continue that way. Please bear in mind
123 if it wasn't for kind hearted GPL coders, you would most likely have to buy
124 or code services yourself. If you follow this course of action I wish you
125 the best of luck. I hope you are prepared to deal with not only the
126 headaches of coding, but countless hours of end user support, bug fixes,
127 mailing lists, hundreds of emails both commending you and condemning you,
128 visitors trafficing your channel on your net looking for support and/or you
129 to install services for them because they didn't RTFM. I wish you luck, not
130 only for the fact that I have no ill feelings toward one that tries to make
131 a difference, but I wish you luck because you WILL need it ...
133 Secondly, if you pin point a specific IRCD type you can have it work even
134 closer be it is only coded for said daemon, it would only have to support
135 the commands from one type instead of many. This makes services smaller,
136 faster and seemingly more seemless than multiple ircd support (which was
137 Andy Church's original plan). That plan being to have good quality non
138 bloated ircservices. I personally like one IRCD support,
99% performance of
139 one daemon to me is far more valuable than
80% performance on multiple
143 I didn't have to write services myself
146 I had to use/switch the recommended daemon (which I didn't have to write it
149 Over all, I lost nothing.
158 NoDoze,ShadowFire.Org
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